Q&A with ARK Invest's Cathie Wood | ETF Trends

Tom Lydon, CEO of ETF Trends, recently sat down with Cathie Wood, CEO of ARK Invest to discuss how ARK Invest was approaching its portfolios during extended market volatility and ARK’s long-term outlook for its investment strategies.

Please note the following regarding views expressed during this interview. Forecasts are inherently limited and cannot be relied upon. This interview is for informational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, or a recommendation to buy, sell or hold any particular security. Any references to particular securities are for illustrative purposes only. The audience should not assume that an investment identified was or will be profitable. PAST PERFORMANCE IS NOT INDICATIVE OF FUTURE PERFORMANCE, FUTURE RETURNS ARE NOT GUARANTEED.

Tom Lydon: Hi, it’s Tom Lydon with ETF Trends and today I’m happy to welcome Cathie Wood, CEO of Ark Invest. Cathie. Great seeing you. Thanks for spending some time with us.

Cathie Wood: Oh, I’m happy to be here, Tom. Wonderful to spend some time with you.

Tom Lydon: So we’ve had a lot of volatility in ’21 and that’s carried over into ’22. How has this affected your response to portfolios? Are you doing anything differently?

Cathie Wood: Well, we are doing right now what we always do during a correction, and this has been an extended one, almost a year now. We’ve been concentrating our portfolios towards our highest conviction names and so we haven’t done anything different. The reason for that is the innovation that we’re investing in is following learning curves that are dropping costs and prices and increasing the access to these technologies throughout the world. So they are scaling exponentially and we just want to be there for the ride.

Tom Lydon: So there’s some concern that maybe the downside volatility has been driven by deterioration in the underlying fundamentals of your holdings?

Cathie Wood: Well, no, although those who tag our portfolios with a stay-at-home description would suggest that there’s decelerating growth and that it probably will not pick back up. That was a once in a lifetime opportunity, pulled a lot of business ahead. We think that this year, now that we are getting through the toughest comparisons, in terms of the coronavirus, when consumers and businesses were adopting technologies aggressively to solve some big problems they were encountering. Now that we are passing through the toughest comparisons, we think this controversy will be put to bed, because as we cycle through, we believe their growth rates are going to accelerate. Forces in motion, if we’re talking about better, cheaper, faster, more productive, more creative, solving problems, those don’t turn back. And so we think that’s going to be the big surprise this year.

Tom Lydon: Well, I remember talking to you about this pre-pandemic and then throughout this pandemic two years that we’ve had, you would bring up different companies like Teledoc, for example, and the story just kept getting stronger and stronger. Maybe use that as an example.

Cathie Wood: Sure. I’d love to. So Teledoc is now in our top five, as is Zoom and Roku. These would fall into the stay-at-home stock category. We’ve been increasing our position as we’ve been concentrating our portfolio. Just to refresh your memory, the reason we concentrate our portfolios is because during risk-off periods most investors and analysts diversify their portfolios and get closer to their benchmarks, the benchmarks against which they’re measured. We do not have anyone benchmark. That’s not what we do. What we do is buy the stocks that they are selling. Because very often, in our portfolios, the stocks are either small positions in indexes, or they’re not in indexes. Our So very few stocks in our portfolio are in the indexes. As investors are selling those shares, again, a decision just to get closer to their benchmark, we’re buying them and concentrating our portfolios towards our highest conviction names.

So let’s talk about Teledoc. And I did write down a few statistics here. Of course, a lot of people were introduced to telemedicine during the coronavirus crisis. They got their first taste. And to the extent they can help it, meaning they don’t absolutely have to see a doctor for checkup reasons that need to be done personally, we are not going back to the old way of doing things. Now, if you look at the revenue of Teledoc, it is up fourfold from 2019. And perhaps more important, the ARPU, the average revenue per user has gone from $1, roughly $1, to $2.60. And our analyst, Simon Barnett, says that if they did a lot more cross-selling and just theoretically, every person took all of their services, that ARPU could go all the way to $68. Now, of course it won’t, but it is going a lot higher.

Now, in this, they just guided to the December quarter 43% growth, which was higher than consensus expectations. That revenue for 2021 now stands at two billion dollars. That’s a real company. A lot of sellers of our stocks, they’re probably quantitative strategist, using algorithms, and really don’t care what a company does. Many just have used valuation as a reason to sell our stocks. But they compare our strategy to a tech and telecom bubble strategy. None of the companies in the tech and telecom bubble that I remember got anywhere near two billion dollars in sales. So there may have been the odd one and maybe Amazon was a very low-margin company was there, but Teledoc is at two billion dollars. It has 68% gross margins. I’ll just wrap this one up by saying many people who do pay a lot more attention to stocks in the various indices are basically dismissing Teledoc as, hey, United Healthcare could do that easily.

Well, the fact is, and maybe they could – they are trying to do it in some way – but this is not their DNA. If you look at Teledoc’s price to sales right now, which is what we have to do with these high-growth companies, as they’re revving into profitability on the operating income line, Teledoc’s price to sales is five times. United Health, 13 to 14 times. Teledoc’s growth rate revenues, they will tell you over the next three to five years, 25% to 30% plus, and United Health, maybe 10%. So there’s something very interesting about this picture, just throwing out the way the world is going to work in order to buy more of the way the world has worked and we think that will prove to be a mistake.

Tom Lydon: You’re so right. I mean, my wife and my kids have all used a Teledoc type service over the last couple of years. It’s so nice and it’s so easy. Even though it’s safer to go back into the dental office, obviously, or see your physician. If you’ve got something going on to be able to do a Teledoc appointment has just been fantastic. I hope we’re not going back. I can’t imagine how shortsighted people are that say that they want to get back in line at a dentist office and wait a half-hour. And it’s also less expensive, right?

Cathie Wood: It’s less expensive. There is a major labor shortage brewing in the healthcare industry as we all know. This is going to be one of the solutions to that problem. And the healthcare system will become more efficient because of it.

If I could just give you, in terms of this idea of tough comparisons, I’ll give you the most extreme example in the portfolio. Zoom. Just to set Zoom up a little bit. Zoom’s user base has gone from 20 million users before the coronavirus to 200 million. Now many people say, oh yeah, but a lot of those people aren’t paying. Okay. Its revenues have gone up sixfold from 2019 to 2021. It is about to face its toughest comparison. Revenue in the fourth quarter year ago went up 370%. Now the fear with Zoom is okay, going back to work, this story is over. Well, it’s not over. If their guidance is correct and where they issued it pretty close to the quarter so I think it’s close, their revenue growth in the fourth quarter will be in the 19 to 20% range.

Think about that. On top of that, that’s against a I think it was 68% comparison. Now that is the toughest quarter they face. The next quarter, they’ll be facing 185% growth. Well, we think their revenue growth rate will accelerate. That is when I think a lot of investors will get an ah-ha moment. Wait a minute. What is going on here? Accelerating against this 185% number. And just to give you a sense of their gross margins, 65% to 68%, most of our companies have very nice gross margins. Its valuation today is eight and a half times revenue. Microsoft and many people say, I know it’s just a microcosm of Microsoft. Microsoft’s a much more mature company. Microsoft’s price to sales is 10 times. So you can see that many of these emerging growth companies that got an accelerated boost, a tailwind from the COVID crisis are now selling at lower multiples on that basis than the most mature companies in the marketplace.

Tom Lydon: It’s crazy to believe. Another quick story, Cathie. So, I’ve been in New York a couple times. We’re here in California. We have a lot of clients in the financial services business that are in New York City and you know what? Maybe I’ll have a lunch, or maybe we’ll go out to some dinners, but people don’t want to meet in the office. They find it more efficient to meet, like this, over Zoom. I would go back to the hotel room and have meetings between the meals and I could have more meetings, more effective, more efficient, and our company with people all over North America, we’re not going back.

Cathie Wood: We’re not. Yes. And what most people do not understand when it comes to Zoom in particular, communications, that category is the largest part of the enterprise technology stack. So telecommunications globally is a $1.5 trillion business. Zoom’s revenue base is $4 billion dollars. Again, a real company. Now we believe that we are in the first major, you’d call it rip and replace, except this is digital, first major rip and replace cycle for the communications part of the tech stack since the early nineties. This is a $1.5 trillion category. Zoom is starting to replace PBXs. So the Ciscos and the Polycoms out there, we believe, are going to be pushed out. So, this is a much bigger story than just video communications, although we do believe that is a very valuable piece of the story.

Tom Lydon: So Cathie lets switch gears for a second. You touched a little bit on Teledoc. Healthcare and genomics names were hit particularly hard in the last 12 months. Talk about that space, and are you still excited about it?

Cathie Wood: We couldn’t be more excited. The space went into a little bit more of a tailspin this week after the JP Morgan conference. The purported reason for that was, oh, we didn’t get any real M&A out of this. This is usually when big announcements are made and typically there are a few very good M&A events. So what we’re dealing here with is really the longest duration stocks in our portfolio. If you’ve been watching, we are continuing to add to these names every time they come down. Now, many of these names, again, you’ve got algorithms at work and you’ve got an inflation fear out there, which many people think means higher interest rates. Interestingly, long-term interest rates are not confirming that by the way. We do believe inflation is transitory. I know that’s become a bad word recently, but we believe people are going to be shocked at how low inflation goes this year. We’re going to see negative year over year in many, many categories. Today’s retail sales report proves that out.

So, we’re dealing with that issue. Inflation, interest rates – interest rates go up, lowering the present value of future cash flows. Of course, we’re looking way into the future with some genomics names. What’s going on in healthcare is increasing confidence that we are going to be able to cure a disease. Intellia, for example, did something this year, it was a few months ago, that nobody thought was possible. Its results from an in vivo trial, which means it was delivered internally, not externally, to T-cells that have been pulled out of the body. So it’s like real medicine, that the cure rate, in a rare disease called H-A-T-T-R was the same in humans as it was in primates. That was a very high cure rate. I think it was in the eighties. Don’t quote me on that, but it was very high, shockingly high.

This is telling us that, first of all, identifying mutations, which we do through DNA sequencing and figuring out what genes to edit to reprogram the genome and get rid of the programming error or the mutation, that this is going to cure disease. Now, it’s very interesting. I may have said this to you before. It’s very interesting to have watched Apple scale to a $3 trillion market cap, but the four or five companies now that have the best patent positions in CRISPR, CAS9, and in base editing and prime editing, those caps collectively don’t even amount to $50 billion. And we’re talking about curing diseases. They have the patents, they will be getting royalties from everyone. That’s just one small microcosm of what’s going to happen in this genomic revolution. It is the convergence of DNA sequencing, artificial intelligence, gene therapies, like gene editing. The way the genome stocks have been treated is purely for a macro reason. Anyone looking at the micros would not be selling these stocks.

Tom Lydon: You and I have talked about this before also, that getting your DNA sequencing, the cost of that has gone down tremendously almost to the point where the average patient who walks in for a checkup every year is going to have the option of getting their DNA sequence looked at, right?

Cathie Wood: Yes, and Simon told us an example of what’s happening with children and rare diseases. I think there were – again, I don’t remember how many people were in the trial – but with short-read sequencing, historically the improvement in the ability to detect these mutations in these children, where the parents just go around for years and years trying to figure out what’s wrong with my child; the understanding had increased to 25% from low single digits. We weren’t able ever to find what these poor children were suffering from in the day. Now, 25%. Long read sequencing now has taken us to 60%.

Just think about this. On average, as we understand it, children with rare diseases – and I think one out of every twelve children born has a rare disease. Most of them are not going to be debilitating. Some are quite debilitating. Parents search on average, it seems, about five years to hit on an answer. Some never do. Well, now we’ve just with long-read sequencing increased the probability of finding what’s wrong out and really giving these children an opportunity to have normal lives.

Tom Lydon: That’s amazing. So I want to ask you this question. A lot of investors may have entered into an ARK ETF a year ago when it was in the first quarter of ’21, things were pretty good. You were coming off a real good year in 2020, but things have fallen off of a little bit since then.

Cathie Wood: Oh, A lot.

Tom Lydon: Talk to those investors. What advice would you give them?

Cathie Wood: Yes. Well, first of all, and we’ve gone back and examined our own record so I can give you some numbers. If you look at our performance, ARKK. If you look at that strategy on a rolling 24-month basis, and to do that, we have 63 observations now, because we started the firm in 2014. 63 observations over a 24-month rolling basis 91% of the time we have beaten, we have outperformed the broad-based averages. If you look at on a three-year basis, so I guess we go down to, that would be 51 observations I think. We have never underperformed the market on a rolling three-year point of view.

What this means is that this rubber band has been stretched so tautly, so tightly, that we believe, and consider the source, but we truly believe given the valuations in our portfolio, the growth in the portfolio, and the fact that we’re probably looking at very choppy waters from a cyclical point of view so that our secular growers are going to shine. We truly believe that that rubber band will snap and the performance will rebound. I’m not going to say, can’t hold me to any particular speed, but we think the undervaluation in the portfolio right now has reached an extreme I’ve never experienced in my career.

I don’t think we’re missing anything. I really don’t. Of course, when we go through periods like this, we examine all of our assumptions and we can be very hard on ourselves. That’s a very healthy process. I can tell you – and I’m talking about both macro and micro – I believe what I just said about our portfolios. They are ready like a coiled spring.

Tom Lydon: Although you started ARK in ’14, and I’m going to be careful here, you and I have been at the markets for a while. I mean, you probably started your career in the eighties. What would you say?

Cathie Wood: Oh, I started my career while I was in college. So it was 1977. Again, inflation was picking up there. So I know of what I talk when it comes to inflation and what will perpetuate it.

Tom Lydon: So when you talk about extremes, this includes the dot com area from a comparative standpoint, right?

Cathie Wood: Yes, and back then, I couldn’t give you any company with two billion, three billion, four billion in sales like I have just given you. Certainly from a gross profit point of view, they were challenged on that score. I think the discipline that has evolved in the market over the last 20 years is we want to see a fundamental measurement of profitability and potential profitability on the bottom line, the operating line. So gross margin is a very good indicator of that. Most of our stocks you’ll find, with the exception of genomics just because we’re such early-stage there, most of our stocks have very healthy gross margins. I gave you Teledoc and Zoom in the high 60s, low 70s. So back in the tech and telecom bubble, I remember investors were falling all over themselves, scrambling to get as much innovation in their portfolio as they were competing with each other to get… I guess the benchmarks went up to 38% technology and investors, in order to beat the benchmark, were up to 45% and 50% technology. What were they doing? The valuations were based on potential eyeballs maybe in 10 years.

That is no longer the case. The analyst and portfolio managers scrutinize earnings looking for clues that that gross margin structure is going to hold as the company scales and that the underlying growth rate is robust and strong and that other competition isn’t coming behind to disrupt it. I think one of the things that has helped us in this period is we are not just singing to our internal choir. We have a very big and robust open-source research ecosystem. We are getting all kinds of support from people who are out there doing the innovating. As I mentioned, the reason we tweet our research and give it away for free is we want to become a part of these communities. So we do have our finger on the pulse of these businesses and the pulse is very strong as we are talking to those who are actually living, eating, and breathing it every day.

Tom Lydon: Well, I have to say, we are students of ETFs. We watch what you folks have done over time. Even though ’21 was a choppy year, your asset base held up pretty well. It wasn’t just a lot of investors chasing a hot dot. Can you talk to that?

Cathie Wood: Yes, I do and we’ve been just incredibly grateful for that support and conviction in our strategy. A lot of the people who enter our strategy understand we are talking about a five-year investment time horizon. As I’ve mentioned before, the rate of return expectation we have for our portfolios during the next five years, even more so after this last one, is higher than I have ever experienced in my business. As I mentioned I’ve been doing this for a long time and I have a lot of experience doing it.

I want to also hold another example out there, just to give you a sense of what can happen if you just stick with it. Tesla, how long did we have to bear the slings and arrows of people who were analysts and others who were trying to denigrate that story and were actually ignoring the data as it was coming through. If someone had sold Tesla in 2019 as the SEC was investigating the famous tweet and as fears that they would never be able to scale manufacturing were rife. As fears that they would run out of cash were also rife, if you had sold then, you would’ve taken a temporary loss and turned it into a permanent loss, and you would’ve missed a move in the stock on this basis, split basis, from the $25 to $30 range up to $1,000 in a little more than two years.

That is the nature of the innovation that’s going on out there and the exponential growth, the explosive growth opportunities out there. Believe me, those companies that have been investing aggressively now and may not be profitable now because they’re investing, much like Tesla did back then, they’re going to be the winners, just like Tesla is. The traditional auto manufacturers really didn’t start thinking about electric vehicles seriously until I’d say the last two years. And now Tesla is running circles around them, and we believe will continue to run circles around them.

Tom Lydon: So, Cathie, when you look at this new year, 2022, what’s driving your conviction to your ETFs? As you look forward, talk a little bit about expectations.

Cathie Wood: Sure. Our conviction and the courage of our conviction, especially in a year like we’ve just experienced, is our research. If anything, our research, and we’re going to be publishing big ideas soon, but our research is reinforcing the conviction that we’ve had. Every time we advance our research one more year as we’re looking out there at learning curves and cost curve declines, and price elasticity of demand, all of that is a green light. Even on the regulatory side, what’s been very satisfying and gratifying is that regulators are data-driven and our strategy is data-driven. Tesla is on the right side of change. All of our companies are on the right side of change.

What we would be worrying about are those who are actually getting closer to their benchmarks and investing in the past and getting set up to be disrupted by the five innovation platforms: DNA sequencing, robotics, energy storage, artificial intelligence, blockchain technology. Those platforms are converging and the kind of growth coming out of those platforms is going to be astonishing. The rapidity, or the speed, at which these platforms are evolving is incredible. It’s going to catch a lot of very large companies on their heels. I often will remind people at one point you didn’t get fired for buying IBM or GE. Today you could. I think there are going to be a lot more examples of that in the traditional benchmarks in the years ahead.

Tom Lydon: So you mentioned big ideas. This is your annual report where you talk about your highest conviction ideas. I look forward to getting that every year. We will make sure we mention that too, for everybody as well. Quick question, does short interest or inverse products that are pegged to your strategies, perhaps being fueled by negative coverage in the media? Does any of that, any of those things affect you in the way you manage your strategies at all?

Cathie Wood: No. I think that there are people who have formed companies and started funds specifically to short our strategy. Now from a psychological point of view, I think about that and I think, gosh, it must be consensus or conventional wisdom that innovation is in a bubble. And I would say in the private markets it might be. The difference in valuations between the private markets and the public markets is bigger I believe now than when we started ARK. One of the reasons I started ARK was to take advantage of what I believed would be an arbitrage between the public and the private markets. And there was. Last year, we had somewhat of a closing of that arbitrage. Now last year, meaning 2020. Now it is wide open again.

One of two things is going to happen. Either the private markets are going to come down, public markets are going to go up in terms of valuation, or some combination of the two. We are seeing coming across our desk daily price to sale ratios in the innovation platforms around which we base our research and our investing. Regularly they’re at 20, 30, 40 times sales. Even higher on some. I just gave you two stocks, Teledocs at five times, and Zoom is at eight and a half times.

So the conviction is puzzling to me because the private markets are saying something very different. The public markets have the revenue basis and the growth rates to prove out that this is the real deal. This is not the tech and telecom bubble all over again. These are real companies that are going to help transform the world in a massive way. The seeds for their technologies were all planted back in the 20 years that ended in the tech and telecom bubble. So these strategies that are inverse to ours suggest to me there’s a lot of conventional wisdom, no problem shorting these stocks. They have only one way to go. Algorithms have helped that along, momentum-driven ones certainly. This is what makes a market. If we’re right, they are going to have to cover it. And I think we’re right.

Tom Lydon: So again, it’s nice to have a loyal client base and that’s important, but at the same time, in terms of headlines, where do you think ARK is most misunderstood? Could you dive into that a little bit.

Cathie Wood: Misunderstood. I think that many people don’t know us and so they don’t understand the depth of our research. They don’t know the breadth of our research ecosystem, which reaches into the world of innovation to derive insights that are not available in the financial world. I think they don’t understand that our analysts, their responsibilities are broken out not by sector or by industry or sub-industry, but by technology. There are 14 technologies involved in the five major platforms. These technologies, if they’re going to move down learning curves and costs fall as we expect them to, then prices will fall, access will increase, and these analysts who have a specialization in technologies will appropriately be generalists on the sectors as they watch these technologies traverse more and more sectors as the costs and prices come down. I think that most research departments are not set up like ARK’s and they don’t understand yet. They should. They are starting to understand. We’re getting some incoming questions, but I think Tesla’s been a great example. Auto analysts should not have been following that stock. Should have been an energy storage analysts, robotics, software as a service, artificial intelligence, very importantly, not auto analysts. We had three analysts on the Tesla stock collaborating. Because of that, we understand how powerful, how powerfully the convergence between and among technologies is going to play out. I need say no more than Tesla going from $25 to $1,000 in two and a half years. It was a major surprise to some people and it was because they didn’t understand the story. We feel that is a theme that’s going to play out again and again and again, in our portfolios.

Tom Lydon: So there were a lot of people on Wall Street that were watching you from afar, not investing, but they’re watching and seeing your great returns over many, many years. And there were a lot of people that did invest who still are loyal investors, but we’ve seen a lot of volatility. With innovation comes volatility. So can you address that?

Cathie Wood: Yes. The first thing I want to say is volatility is not always a bad word. In fact, in a bull market, volatility is your friend. Certainly, that was the case for us in 2020. The reason it has become a bad word is since the tech and telecom bust, we have seen every bear market accompanied by an increase in volatility as measured by the CBOE’s VIX. And yet, because so many people in the business joined after the tech and telecom bubble, they do not remember that we have seen volatility move up in up markets for extended periods of time. I think we will go back there again. I think 2020 was a glimpse at that. We use the volatility to our advantage. We know that disruptive innovation is controversial and with controversy can come volatility. We believe that our research points us in the right direction. So if a stock is down 10 or 20% in the short term because of some earnings result where a company decided to invest more to innovate and was punished, we will be buying a stock like that.

So we use the volatility to our advantage. And very often you’ll see that trading around volatility adds significant alpha. In 2018, when the market was down, our trading around Tesla alone – Now, granted, it was one of the more volatile ones – our trading around the volatility of Tesla alone added, I believe, 175 basis points to performance. In a down year. That had nothing to do with how Tesla did. That was simply our trading. So we do use it. I believe we’ve used it massively in this last year and the proof will be in the next few years. We’ll see if this leaning into the negative sentiment and declining prices is going to pay off. It has every other time in my career.

Tom Lydon: So if an advisor who invested their client’s money in your ETFs or an individual investor bought your ETFs, succinctly, what would you tell them? What advice would you give them?

Cathie Wood: Well, there’s tremendous change on the way. We know it. We’re seeing it in our lives. The ground is shifting underneath us. It is because of these innovation platforms. The most important thing is to get and stay on the right side of change. Now, what does that mean in terms of portfolio construction? Do you want to go 100% into a strategy like ours? Well, most given the volatility, cannot do that. I might do that personally, and I have a huge majority of my financial wealth in our strategies. That’s because of the conviction I have in them on a five-year basis. But just let’s take the more risk-averse investor. If we’re right and there’s going to be a lot of creative destruction out there, there are going to be a lot more IBMs and GEs. Again, they were never supposed to have failed as spectacularly as they have in terms of their promise. If we’re right, then even the conservative investors need a hedge against that possibility. Our portfolios are a great hedge and we have a white paper on our site about how adding our portfolio to traditional growth and value portfolios, 5% to 10%, would have increased returns. Relative to just the plain vanilla value growth would have increased returns and lowered volatility because the correlation of our returns, and you can see it in the last couple of years, the correlation of our returns to the traditional benchmarks has been very low. Last year it was negative. The year before it was positive, but over time, very low correlation of returns. We know that most of our clients that are advised by RIAs have exposure in, I think it’s below 10%. I think most below 5%. I certainly would be using this downdraft to increase that allocation, because if anything during the last year, and it is quite a year for me to be saying this, if anything our conviction in how rapidly the world is going to change and how transformative these technologies will be as they converge and feed one another, our conviction in that outlook has increased dramatically.

Tom Lydon: It’s great to hear that, Cathie. I know you probably have a lot of people asking you, especially younger investors or younger advisors what’s some of your best advice. When I look back in all those years where I got emotionally involved in volatility in the market and I did the stupid thing at the wrong time, I would just overemphasize that the people that I talk to, you’ve got time that we don’t have right now. Make that work for you. What would you add to that?

Cathie Wood: Well, and I will harken back to ’08, ’09. How many people do both of us know who just couldn’t take it anymore? They became very emotional. Their life was flashing before their eyes. They thought they were going to be destitute. You conjure up all kinds of fears as downward momentum continues relentlessly day by day. They finally can’t take it. They sell and they regret it for the rest of their lives. They think of about it every day the market goes up after that. So I would agree with you. An emotional response, just avoid it. It is usually catastrophic to long-term performance. What is additive and significantly so to performance is averaging down. It doesn’t feel good maybe as you’re doing it, but you would be shocked how little it takes if you’re consistent and you just keep averaging down

Tom Lydon: Before I let you go, I want to come back to Big Ideas 2022. I know it’s coming out soon. Anything you could tease out for us? Could you give us a little peek?

Cathie Wood: Well, I think because of the year that we’ve had, we’ve probably packed in a lot more substance. You’re going to learn a lot more about NFTs and the metaverse. We think that word is becoming overused now. In the continuum of Bitcoin, Defi, and NFTs we’re going to help put that into perspective. I think that’s probably the question we are getting the most. People know that we are all about innovation. They want to understand if we really believe in this NFT thing and we really believe in it. So we’ll look forward to sharing all of that with advisors and, and with the world.

Tom Lydon: Cathie, we’re excited to have you as one of our keynote speakers at Exchange, our in-person ETF conference in Miami Beach in April. We’re really looking forward to seeing you.

Cathie Wood: Oh, well, thank you. I know you just delayed it a couple of months and I think you did exactly the right thing. I am really looking forward to being in person with you and all of your clients and my colleagues in April in Miami.

Tom Lydon: I know you’ll be there in force. Cathie, thank you. Thanks for your time today and look forward to seeing you in person.

Cathie Wood: Oh, thank you, Tom. Thank you so much for giving us this amazing platform.

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